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Introduction


joshw

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Hi everyone,

 

I wasn’t sure where to post an introduction, I hope this an ok place.

 

I’m not a Porsche owner yet, but I’m in the process of looking for my first car. I joined hoping to gain some knowledge about the various models, perhaps see a few in person, and get some direction on locating a good car.

 

What I think I want:

Porsche 911 Coupé, air cooled flat 6 cylinder.

I’m partial to the early pre 1987 models, but open to others.

 

I’ve been doing a lot of reading, but would really appreciate comments, concerns, web resources, questions to help me narrow down my search. Hopefully I can avoid any pitfalls.

 

When it comes to purchasing, are there places outside of Kijiji, Craigslist, EBay, BAT, I should be looking.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by joshw
year error, meant 87 (prior to the introduction of the 964)
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welcome Josh,

 

why not come out to cars and coffee, see the cars and talk to the owners, theres quite a few air cooled 911 guys in the club who can provide much direction.

 

good luck

'21 Macan GTS PDK

Miami Blue/Black, 7k kms

 

'93 928 GTS 5 speed

Polar Silver/Linen, 192k kms

 

'88 928 S4 A/T

Black/Ivory, 190k kms

 

'09 Cayenne GTS Tiptronic

Nordic Gold/Black, +336k kms

 

'88 928 S4 A/T

Red/Champagne, 110k miles (US car)

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Thanks, Malcolm

 

Yes, I was definitely planning to attend the first cars and coffee on Tuesday, May 22nd. I've never attended one, so I'm definitely looking forward to it. It appears to be a big event, with numerous european brands on display. Do Porsche club members get together weekly for drives? I noticed there is a Wednesday night wing night, would that be an ok spot to drop in and learn?

 

Thanks again.

 

Josh

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Sounds like we're green light for another wing night. Great place to meet up and BS about aircooled 911s!

Erik

 

2001 911 Turbo X50

1980 911SC - Black, 3.2 litre short stroke SOLD!

2002 BMW M3 - Carbon Black over Cinnamon

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Keith Adams

Josh,

 

The search can be long and frustrating with a lot of dead ends. I know of a black SC targa coming up for sale soon, but if you're set on a coupe (don't blame you - I don't even like sunroofs forget targas) may not be for you. The biggest factor is going to be how much you are prepared to spend, and how far afield you are prepared to go to get it. Are you looking for an investment, a driver that needs nothing, a project that needs some work that you can do yourself, or a resto which will require cubic dollars to complete?

 

The number of cars available in California at any give time is about 1000x what's available here. But you have to keep your mind game in check before you go bonkers - whatever the price of the car is, add in CA tax, $3000 USD for shipping, then convert the price to Canadian dollars, then add 15% for what it will cost you to get it imported and registered. So a $30K USD car is $50K CAD once here.

 

The Excellence classifieds and PCA classifieds are great places to look, but 99% of the cars are in the U.S. The Samba is another place to look, but same deal, and some sellers are a touch iffy. Lots of classic car dealers out there who can set you up, but the prices will be over-market (e.g. check out https://autokennel.com/ but ensure you are seated and have a defibrillator handy). BaT is fun, but doesn't reflect the realities of the market either. The challenge is that every Tom, Dick and Harry has seen the inflation in the 911 market, and thusly thinks "Oh, my old 911 must be worth that much too" without full consideration that rarity, condition and provenance drive a lot of those prices.

 

There are also specialty auto brokers who will search out the right car for you - for the right price.

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Wow, thanks for the reply Keith, lots of helpful information.

 

I'm looking for a driver, not really concerned with the investment but if it holds its value that would be great. Doesn't have to be a perfect car, I'm not interested in a full restoration. perhpahs something that needs some tinkering and or visual improvements. It would appear targas are more plentiful than coupe's, but I'm definitely looking for a coupe.

 

I have looked locally, and nationally, but it seems if you want to find something in resonable condition (rust free-ish) and get any type of selection you need need to look stateside. I'm ok with the the retrival process (whether that's having it shipped or driving it up if its in the west) but I'm just now investgating the import procedures. I imported an RV in the past, and that was relatively simple process of getting an inspection and paying the GST. In your comment you mention an additional 15% to import and register the car, is this just to make the car street legal and pass the inspection in Canada or a tax? If street legal, is there anything specific, or just unknown required maintenace.

 

I've expanded my web search to the PelicanParts forum, the samba (as you mentioned), and found a few different dealers in various locations in the USA. Some appear to be seedy and have bad reputations (beverly hills car club). Does anyone have experience with a dealer that is reputable? I don't mind paying a slight premium for a dealer car, as I think it will be an easier transaction vs dealing with a private sale.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

Edited by joshw
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mbeckergt3

Welcome to the club Josh.

 

Last time I did this it was 5% GST plus 6% import duty (unless this has changed, don't think so). The import duty is because it is a European mfg car and it doesn't fall under Nafta (until The Orange One cancels it). The rest of the costs, import inspection/sticker, RIV registration, brokerage paperwork is a few hundred bucks here and there. Companies like TFX, professional, fully enclosed 'NASCAR' trailers can help do the brokerage paperwork etc for you as part of their shipment service / quote.

 

M

Edited by mbeckergt3
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Keith Adams
In your comment you mention an additional 15% to import and register the car, is this just to make the car street legal and pass the inspection in Canada or a tax?

The 15% is an approximation of what you will pay in GST, duty, tire tax, air conditioner excise tax, RIV fee, inspection at the local Crappy Tire, etc. Just a good round number to work with when doing mental arithmetic.

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mrdunlop944
Welcome aboard, your in good hands here. See you at cars and coffee..

84 944 SOLD

85 944/1

85.5 944 Parts car Sold

86 944 SOLD

86 944 Turbo SOLD

88 944S parts car sold

88 924S Sold

88 944 Turbo S SOLD

89 944 Turbo

90 944S2 coupe Sold

90 944S2 coupe Parts car Sold

90 944S2 Cabrio SOLD

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Welcome to the club Josh.

 

Last time I did this it was 5% GST plus 6% import duty (unless this has changed, don't think so). The import duty is because it is a European mfg car and it doesn't fall under Nafta (until The Orange One cancels it). The rest of the costs, import inspection/sticker, RIV registration, brokerage paperwork is a few hundred bucks here and there. Companies like TFX, professional, fully enclosed 'NASCAR' trailers can help do the brokerage paperwork etc for you as part of their shipment service / quote.

 

M

 

I was wondering if there might be an additional import duty because the car was built in Germany (I assume) and therefor outside the NAFTA agreement. I'll have to look into that.

 

It's my understanding that cars older than 15 years are excempt from RIV, which is one less step. I'll have to look into daytime running lights, and guage cluster requirements.

 

I actually put an email into TFX this afternoon, we'll see what I get back.

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The 15% is an approximation of what you will pay in GST, duty, tire tax, air conditioner excise tax, RIV fee, inspection at the local Crappy Tire, etc. Just a good round number to work with when doing mental arithmetic.

 

Excellent, thanks again.

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I think Keith and Mark gave some pretty solid advice. My first 911 buying story couldn't have been better. I was quite fortunate to find my 1980 in the BC interior, near Nelson. Originally a US car (Hawaii delivery, followed by California registration till 2003 when it moved to BC). It currently has 275,000 miles on it (~440,000 km) but every single moving part has been replaced at some point or another. Plus it had a fresh engine build when I bought it, worth more than what I paid for the entire car.

 

To Keith's point about the relative size of the US market, all of the interest the seller was getting was from the US, but he was not willing to take care of export/transport logistics, which scared potential US buyers off. I was able to drive in, do the deal, and drive home over a weekend.

 

If rust is a concern, the main place I would worry about (and this is difficult to tell) is the rear parcel shelf and seat pans, as the rear windows tend to leak and rot out these areas. All 911s built starting in 1976 benefit from a galvanized body and better corrosion resistance. The earlier cars tend to be rusty unless they spent their entire lives protected from rain and salt.

 

Each generation has its foibles, and the "best" of the aircooled cars for reliability and drivability within your preferred range are the 1984 - 1989 3.2 litre Carreras, as they have a bulletproof engine and relatively-modern Bosch Motronic fuel injection. I take it from your 1987 cutoff you don't want one with the improved G50 transmission. The 1978 - 1983 3.0 litre SCs are pretty bulletproof as well, and the Bosch CIS/K-Jetronic fuel injection is at least an improvement over carbs in terms of drivability. The US cars were prettty strangled by emissions requirements, but that can be remedied easily if you like. The 1974 - 1977 2.7 litre "midyear" cars had issues with overheating due to a 5-bladed fan (an ill-advised attempt to make the cars run hotter to pass US emissions) and pulled head studs. Both can be fixed, and these cars also have Bosch CIS. And then of course there are the longhood cars . . .

 

Anyway, good luck with your search! There is a white 1977 coupe that might become available for sale. And there's the odd interesting car that pops up for sale in the club!

Edited by ErikA

Erik

 

2001 911 Turbo X50

1980 911SC - Black, 3.2 litre short stroke SOLD!

2002 BMW M3 - Carbon Black over Cinnamon

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Thanks again, Erik.

 

I'm excited about the prospect of purchasing my first Porsche and trying to resist just grabbing the first thing I see. I would definitely be much simpler to purchase in Canada (reduces a lot of headaches) if I can find something in good condition. Did you find your car on Craigslist Erik?

 

I'm not opposed to the 87-89 G50 transmission, as the reality is I don't have any experience with either 915 or G50 gearbox. My mind just likes the more raw box, perhaps that's a poor way to make a decision. I'm sure i'll begin to narrow down years as I collect more information, and learn.

 

If that 1977 white coupe comes available, I would definitely be interested in having a look.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

 

Josh

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Update on the 6.1% import duty on vehicles coming from the USA but foreign built. According to TFX international, this is waived if the car is 25 years or older, which I believe makes all cars built prior to 1993 exempt.
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I thought it was after 15 years. I know I had to pay it on my 2007 but IIRC not my 914.

 

The air cooled cars are beginning to skyrocket in price, so you might want to consider the 996 and 986 which are going for a song right now, as a first Porsche.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Perci

 

PCA DE Instructor

 

2014 Cayman S

2000 Boxster S

2000 Carrera

2010 Panamera 4S

1989 928GT

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Thanks Erik, I'm getting a free education here as well! :cool:

 

 

If rust is a concern, the main place I would worry about (and this is difficult to tell) is the rear parcel shelf and seat pans, as the rear windows tend to leak and rot out these areas. All 911s built starting in 1976 benefit from a galvanized body and better corrosion resistance. The earlier cars tend to be rusty unless they spent their entire lives protected from rain and salt.

 

Each generation has its foibles, and the "best" of the aircooled cars for reliability and drivability within your preferred range are the 1984 - 1989 3.2 litre Carreras, as they have a bulletproof engine and relatively-modern Bosch Motronic fuel injection. I take it from your 1987 cutoff you don't want one with the improved G50 transmission. The 1978 - 1983 3.0 litre SCs are pretty bulletproof as well, and the Bosch CIS/K-Jetronic fuel injection is at least an improvement over carbs in terms of drivability. The US cars were prettty strangled by emissions requirements, but that can be remedied easily if you like. The 1974 - 1977 2.7 litre "midyear" cars had issues with overheating due to a 5-bladed fan (an ill-advised attempt to make the cars run hotter to pass US emissions) and pulled head studs. Both can be fixed, and these cars also have Bosch CIS. And then of course there are the longhood cars . . .

 

Anyway, good luck with your search! There is a white 1977 coupe that might become available for sale. And there's the odd interesting car that pops up for sale in the club!

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Thanks Erik, I'm getting a free education here as well! :cool:

 

I call it a hobby. My wife calls it an obsession :D

Erik

 

2001 911 Turbo X50

1980 911SC - Black, 3.2 litre short stroke SOLD!

2002 BMW M3 - Carbon Black over Cinnamon

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I call it a hobby. My wife calls it an obsession :D

 

indeed we are :)

 

Given I just bought a car in Tx I'll let you know about import fees asap

'21 Macan GTS PDK

Miami Blue/Black, 7k kms

 

'93 928 GTS 5 speed

Polar Silver/Linen, 192k kms

 

'88 928 S4 A/T

Black/Ivory, 190k kms

 

'09 Cayenne GTS Tiptronic

Nordic Gold/Black, +336k kms

 

'88 928 S4 A/T

Red/Champagne, 110k miles (US car)

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I thought it was after 15 years. I know I had to pay it on my 2007 but IIRC not my 914.

 

The air-cooled cars are beginning to skyrocket in price, so you might want to consider the 996 and 986 which are going for a song right now, as a first Porsche.

 

---

 

Agreed, air-cooled Porsche prices seem to have increased substantially as of late, I wish I would have purchased a few years back. I noticed 996 and 986 prices are low in comparison, but I'm not sure they're what I'm looking for. They're very nice, but maybe too refined and modern. I'm going to keep an open mind though until I get a chance to see a few in person, perhaps next week at Earls or at Cars and Coffee.

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A car like my 2000 Boxster S can be had for about $16K USD. Not too modern, but huge fun. Just account for an IMS change.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perci

 

PCA DE Instructor

 

2014 Cayman S

2000 Boxster S

2000 Carrera

2010 Panamera 4S

1989 928GT

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No doubt, I saw that car earlier this week and the price is definitely out of my comfort zone. It's probably a great car, as it's at a Porsche dealership, and I'm sure they've gone through it. Big money for the guy who wants a turn key no issues car.
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Nostrathomas

My feeling is that unless you’re budget is really healthy, you’ll have to find something to compromise on, or you’ll just be stuck on the sidelines watching prices go up.

 

If you don’t want to compromise, scrape together every penny you have and buy a car from Holt Motorsports or Sloan. But if you’re like the rest of us, something will have to give, because there are no cheap air-cooled 911s any more. Whether it’s the exact generation, air/water cooled, body style, color, mileage, condition, transmission, price…figure out what are the absolute “must haves”, and be flexible on the “really wants”.

 

Personally, I ended up buying a generation I didn’t yet fully appreciate (964), in a color I was hoping to avoid (not that I don’t like red, but I wanted a change of pace from my Cayman), and at higher mileage that I set out for. But I got my manual C2 coupe in great condition for a really good deal. If I would’ve hemmed and hawed waiting for the perfect car, I would’ve been priced out.

 

I think you’ll also realize that once you get behind the wheel, a lot of the minutiae of specifics just melts away. Your priorities may evolve too. I love the lines of the couple, but these days I may even prefer a targa. I end up driving with the sunroof open most of the time anyway to maximize the open-air feeling and engine sound. I think a targa would make it even more exhilarating, while still retaining a lot of coupe characteristics.

 

 

A few other things I learned along the way:

 

• Spring is a sellers market. Fall tends to be a better time to buy.

 

• Apart from the big marketplaces, try to keep an eye on all the various small PCA forums like this one. If there are any deals to be had, It will most likely be one that’s word of mouth or in a smaller corner of the world. For me, after doing a daily scouring of Rennlist, Pelican, Bat, Samba, and every independent Porsche dealer…. I ended up buying something that was listed right here on this very forum.

 

• If you see something you like, be prepared to move on it immediately.

 

• Even if you have to do it a few times, a PPI is always worth it. It’s like a good accountant…it will save you money in the end.

1990 964 C2 - Guards Red

2007 Cayman - Guards Red (former)

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