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Rajay turbochargers / suspected faulty fuel pump


Alex

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Hi, it's me again, seeking more free advice from all you Porsche nuts! Oh, and thank you to Fritz and Rick....picked up the large Hex key set at Princess Auto yesterday....(first time there.....that is quite the shop!)...will put it to use this W/E.

 

Anyway, on to the requests!

 

(1) Has anybody heard of Rajay turbochargers? The first owner of my '80 SC had a Rajay turbocharger system installed by German Autowerke in Seattle some 25 years ago. I am in the process of doing some "investigative maintenance" on the car and would like to know more about the unit and would like to perform any required maintenance on it. I contacted the shop in Seattle (it's still open for business) but got no response. Rajay industries existed in Southern California in the 70's and 80's and was taken over by Kelly Aerospace sometime ago. Again, I contacted them but got no response.

 

(2) Suspected faulty fuel pump......the same vehicle; Above 4000 rpm the engine sometimes hesitates and then surges. I recently replaced the air filter, the fuel filter, but not the accumulator. Also, occasionally, the distinct humm of the fuel pump can be heard after I kill the engine. From the research I've done, the accumulator is probably OK but the pump may be faulty.....correct?

 

Any advice, without having to take it in to Riegel Tuning, would be much appreciated!

 

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa

2006 997 C4S Coupe

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi again Alex

 

Engine surging as you describe it can be the result of several different systems being "out ot tune" on your car. Fuel systems or ignition are the two most likely.

 

I know the name Rayjay (dating myself here) but won't venture a guess on your specific issue without more details on the set up first.

 

Do you have any documentation (installation/owners manual and/or photographs) of the Rayjay system installed on your SC?

 

Your set-up has to include some form of fuel regulation given the unique nature of turbocharged induction vs. normal aspiration. (early Porsche 930 installations use a complex combination of pressure (vacuum) throttle position and mechanical means to regulate the fuel being fed to the engine. Over time the soft rubber components harden up and crack causing incorrect metering action (fuel mixture is either too rich or too lean)

 

Short term symptoms can manifest as surging or hesitation. Longer term, a too rich mixture will wash cylinder walls, leading to a siezed engine. A too lean condition will burn valves or worse detonate pistons due to overheating.

 

Let me know what you have in the way of support docs/manuals. With that we can then better educate ourselves on your specific set up.

 

cheers!

 

Rick

Edited by Rick
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Hi Rick

 

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, the second owner (I am the third) had no documents / manuals to pass on to me with regards to what was actually installed with regards to the turbocharger assembly. I have removed the unit from the rear of the car, along with the exhaust pipes. I am trying to remove the exhaust components from the turbo but that has proven to be quite a challenge. Currently I am soaking the bolts with WD40 for a few days and will try again this weekend.

 

The unit is strictly a bolt-on type. The assembly includes a blow off valve but no intercooler or boost guage. I can't tell if there is an internal wastegate ( I presume there must be) as I can't yet access that part of the turbocharger.

 

I have never really driven the car that "hard" but it has performed very well over the years. My goal is to be able to fully service the vehicle......an enjoyable past-time for us Porsche guys!

 

Sincerely,

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi again Alex

 

Do you have any pictures of the turbo unit installed? Perferrably taken prior to your removal efforts. (however any pics at all will be helpful) I would be very interested to see how the unit was plumbed to the engine.

 

Also, I will respectfully suggest you purchase penetrating oil (like "liquid wrench") to loosen the rusted fasteners you are wrestling with. WD40 will help, but as a general purpose lubricator it isn't nearly as effective as true penetrating oil. [Canadian Tire, Napa, Parts Source should all carry it.]

 

cheers!

 

Rick

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Rick, I'll post some photos of the turbo assembly hopefully tomorrow or Saturday. The unit has been removed from the car however, as I am doing other work on the car.....(I'm expecting my parts package any day now from Pelican!). I'll show you the turbocharger as well as the air intake connections behind the air filter housing. Meanwhile, I'll heed your advice and get some Liquid Wrench from Canadian T this evening. It appears to me that you know your Porsches very well.....do you also do your own maintenance? Have you rebuilt Porsche engines?

 

Once again, your input is very much appreciated!........I'll owe you a beer or two!

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Good evening Alex

 

Thanks for the kudo's, however I wouldn't consider myself an authority on Porsche, rather a mere student to all things mechanical. I am continually impressed with the design efficiency & build quality of the Porsche's I have worked on. :p

 

Yes, I perform the maintenance & repairs (up to a point) on my cars. I have installed a car lift in my garage and currently will work on anything that doesn't require machining or welding. I will add both of the above to my resume once I retire from my day job.

 

I haven't rebuilt a Porsche engine just yet, but have accepted that very task on a certain 2.4 litre motor belonging to one of our WRR members. Should be lots of fun.

 

Look forward to seeing the pictures of your turbo charger set up.

 

f.y.i.: I might be interested in (i.e.: purchasing) your turbo system after reviewing its design, ... that is of course ... if you are considering selling it.

 

cheers!

 

Rcik

Edited by Rick
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Rick, here are some pictures of the Rajay turbo assembly (off of the car):

 

(1) Rajay turbo

IMG_0907.jpg

 

(2) Compressor side view

 

IMG_0906.jpg

 

(3) The whole shebang!........ off the car

 

IMG_0899.jpg

 

(4)

 

IMG_0900.jpg

 

(5)

 

IMG_0901.jpg

 

(6) Blow off valve

 

IMG_0902.jpg

 

(7) Closer view of blow off valve

 

IMG_0903.jpg

 

(8) Connections behind air filter housing

 

IMG_0896.jpg

 

(9) Oil supply line

 

IMG_0898.jpg

 

(10) Oil return line connection to left side cam cover

 

IMG_0905.jpg

 

Sorry, it would have been better to get a few "before" shots in there as well, but......

 

As I had mentioned, the system works quite well. It kicks in at just under 4000 rpm and from there it's....WHOOOOOOOSSSSHHHH! One great turbo kick! (probably not quite the same as a 930 but it still kicked A in it's day!........remember, it was installed I would guess back in '82-'83)

 

I never did get it dyno'd but once I get the fuel pump (I'm suspecting) problem solved, I may just do that. I would also like to consider adding an intercooler and boost guage at some point, if that's at all possible.

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Sorry Rick, my mistake, ......... I just realized that pictures #3, 4, and 5 are "not as illustrated"......the two stainless steel pipes for the compressor and turbine exhaust flow should be orientated at 180 degrees to their connection to the turbocharger assembly and not as represented in those photos.......can you visualize that?.........this would more accurately show the set-up. These two pipes then connect to the two orange elbows (one behind the other) as shown on photo #8.

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi Alex

 

With all of the above dialog, I forgot to ask several crucial questions.

 

Was the hestitation you mentioned occuring with or without the turbo charger installed on the engine? Also, is the car running a stock fuel injection map, or was the car "chipped" when the turbo was installed?

 

cheers!

 

Rick

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Rick, this is actually the first time that I've removed the turbo from the car.....that is how I discovered the Rajay name as the previous owner knew very little about the modifications performed by the first owner. Yes, a little odd because if I was the second owner I'd want to know all details of all modifications done, along with manuals, documents, etc. but.....that was not me! So, to answer your first question, the hesitation started about 3 years ago with the turbo in place.

 

Good second question!....to be sure, I don't really know....how can I tell if the car has been chipped?

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Good evening Alex

 

Given the vintage of the turbo installation, let's conclude that the Fuel Injection system is not chipped. Early prom technology required a "burner" for programming microchips. These were not very common 25 years ago.

 

Also, the fact that this hesitation has not always been present makes me think we are back to fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, dirty injectors or the ignition system.

 

I'm going to do a little reading and get back to you shortly.

 

More shortly.

 

Rick

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Thanks Rick....again, your input is much appreciated!

 

Upon closer inspection, it appears that the SC has the standard Bosch CDI unit, however, along with the muffler modifications to accommodate the turbo unit, it also appears that the catalytic convertor has been eliminated.....so basically, no O2 sensor system from what I understand....though, it's been that way from day 1, since I bought the SC back in 1991........my virgin Porsche years!

 

I've been reading through the Bentley SC workshop manual and there appears to be a multitude of literature detailing fuel delivery system testing........will probably have to take a little closer look at these when I've completed my other work.

 

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on delivery from Pelican Parts of "a bunch of stuff".......you've probably dealt with them before.....what's the usual delivery time to Calgary?

 

Have a good weekend!

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi again Alex

 

It would appear you & I were researching similar topics.

 

Your 1980 3.0 ltr. SC came equipped with a Bosch K-Jetronic ECU c/w Lambda (O2) to manage its' fuel injection system.

 

The fact your O2 sensor was eliminated (likely during the turbo installation) would explain the overly sooted exhaust pipes depicted in your pictures. Your engine is running very rich! An overly rich fuel delivery will allow your engine to produce slightly more power, but over time will foul spark plugs, increase depositing on your valves and in the longer term degrade the performance of your engine.

 

The fact the catalytic converter has been removed should not be a problem as long as the O2 sensor is intact. I run my 3.2 without the cat, but with the O2 sensor installed. It runs a little rich on the warm up circuit, but then leans out to normal once the engine is up to operating temp.

 

I would recommend that on reassembly of your engine, you reinstall (and connect) an O2 sensor. You can drill & tap the existing exhaust pipe downstream of the "Y" connection so the sensor reads the combined O2 levels from all 6 cylinders.

 

You should also inspect your distributor to ensure that the mechanical advance mechanism is clean and functions properly. Also check the vacuum advance diaphram and the associated rubber lines to ensure they are not cracked and leaking.

 

Any of the above systems if not functioning correctly could be the source of the engine hesitation you are looking to remedy.

 

Pelican Parts deliveries range from 5 days to several weeks depending on stock levels at the time you order. I am currently waiting on several items myself.

 

sincerely;

 

Rick

Edited by Rick
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Thanks again Rick!

 

I have just changed the spark plugs and the old ones (3 years old) appeared to be in pretty good shape with no signs of fouling. I'll take a closer look at the O2 sensor set up as well as the other systems you mentioned after I complete my other work, pending parts delivery. Again, any other input down the road would be much appreciated....keep the "tips" coming!

 

Man, I sure hope that we do finally get some "spring" soon....would love to get at least the C4S out......though I really do hate the stones on the road as well.....gotta be careful!

 

And, unfortunately, I will miss Fritz's BBQ too!......oh well, it's not all bad.....we'll be in Hawaii!

 

Talk to you soon....and maybe see you at the April meeting!

 

Cheers!

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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I myself have tried ordering from Pelican on all sorts of different days to try to get the parts in on Friday but no matter what I've tried they always appear on a Monday! I think it's their way of having fun! I also replaced the cat with a fabspeed bypass that had the O2 sensor. This maybe a good starting point as Rick suggested.

‘12 Targa 4S - Amythist metallic

'81 SC Targa - sold but not forgotten

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Hey Paul....well, as it turns out, the same thing happened to me! I ordered parts from Pelican on the 15th, thinking for sure that they would be here by Friday the 25th...so I "scheduled the weekend off "from" my family"....weather was going to be brutal anyway.....as it turns out it was, which would mean a great two days to work on the car, right?....well, the parts came in today.....Monday! C'est la Vie!!!

 

Just curious......do you perform all of your own maintenance on your SC?

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi Rick:

 

I am just a little curious.....you mentioned that you would be helping one of our members rebuild their 2.4L 911 engine. I would just love to take a quick peek someday at the project in the making, if at all possible. Any chance that you could pass this note on to the member in question? As I had mentioned, I am trying to gain as much knowledge on 911's and how they are "put together" for my own future hobby interests!

 

Much appreciated!

 

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa

2006 997 Carrera 4S Coupe

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Hi Alex

 

Just back from two days in TO on business.

 

Seeing the 2.4 rebuild in progress shouldn't be a problem. I have inherited the engine as something of a club project and will have it in my garage for some time. It's not here just yet, as I have to arrange to pick it up c/w several boxes of parts and then get it mounted it on my engine stand. :p

 

Will suggest that a drive to the SE once our weather is more favourable will be in order. I'll let you know when I have everything here.

 

cheers!

 

Rick

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Hi Alex,

 

I understand your frustration all to well. The anticipation of getting the parts before the weekend, clearing the weekend schedule, and then waiting. Pelican parts only delivers on Mondays! or is it Canada post?

 

As far as maintenance is concerned, lets just say I do the stuff which I think would be fun and within my skill set ( or the poor soul who offered to help).

 

That said though, I would be more than interested to have a monthly Tech get together within the club to learn from others, swap ideas, or just stare at engines:) I know Rick is a busy guy, but he knows quite a bit (and has lift) so if your up to it Rick...........................

 

Paul.

‘12 Targa 4S - Amythist metallic

'81 SC Targa - sold but not forgotten

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As far as maintenance is concerned, lets just say I do the stuff which I think would be fun and within my skill set ( or the poor soul who offered to help).

 

I guess that would make me the poor soul!

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Paul, that sounds like a great idea! I am no mechanic but feel fairly mechanically inclined and would just love to learn more about "how stuff works". We could call us the "WRR-DIY club"...get down and dirty (and greasy) and learn how to "fix your 911"!

 

And Frank, what is your drive and where does it leak from?

 

Alex

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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Paul, that sounds like a great idea! I am no mechanic but feel fairly mechanically inclined and would just love to learn more about "how stuff works". We could call us the "WRR-DIY club"...get down and dirty (and greasy) and learn how to "fix your 911"!

 

And Frank, what is your drive and where does it leak from?

 

Alex

 

Hi Alex, its a 1990 964 C2. Absolutely love it.

The leak apparently is from a valve cover.

 

Frank

 

PS I too would be up for a "Tech DIY enjoy a beer" monthly get together :p

Edited by Frank
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Hey Frank, I suspect that it would probably be your lower valve covers. I'm in the process of doing the same project (amongst others!) on my 1980 911SC and have just received my parts from Pelican. I've been told that using the silicone bead valve cover gaskets is pretty-much idiot-proof and virtually iliminates leaks occuring from that source. I've looked at the Pelican Parts website (www.pelicanparts.com) and I believe that you can also get a silicone bead valve cover gasket kit for your 964. As far as access to the lower valve covers on my SC,....... piece of cake.....just have to drain the oil and jack up (with safety jacks) the car at the rear and there they are!.....can't be a whole lot different on the 964's!?!.....and now the DISCLAIMER!?!

 

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa

2006 997 Carrera 4S Coupe

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa "turbo" - Light Blue Metallic

2007 997TT Coupe - black/black and black - now wrapped Gloss Red Metallic

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I am interested in helping out with a DIY get together. I have most tools hoist and large drive way. We could have some of them at my place and coming out to TV is already a plus, because of the drive alone.

Some body step forward and start organizing it and let's talk. Between Kens, Ricks and Eriks knowlage, we might be able to learn some thing.

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Hey Frank, I suspect that it would probably be your lower valve covers. I'm in the process of doing the same project (amongst others!) on my 1980 911SC and have just received my parts from Pelican. I've been told that using the silicone bead valve cover gaskets is pretty-much idiot-proof and virtually iliminates leaks occuring from that source. I've looked at the Pelican Parts website (www.pelicanparts.com) and I believe that you can also get a silicone bead valve cover gasket kit for your 964. As far as access to the lower valve covers on my SC,....... piece of cake.....just have to drain the oil and jack up (with safety jacks) the car at the rear and there they are!.....can't be a whole lot different on the 964's!?!.....and now the DISCLAIMER!?!

 

Alex

 

1980 911SC Targa

2006 997 Carrera 4S Coupe

 

This is something I am thinking of doing when I change the oil. It should not be difficult Alex!

 

Now how do I get my car off the ground so I can work under it safely, mmmm?

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